不好為了堅持加爾文的預定論或其他而隨便抹黑亞米念主義......yellowcat 亞米念主義從來沒有說神是消極的等候人信, 實際上﹐亞米念主義也說神是主動尋找失喪的人﹐ 神的“預定”是基于神全知﹐知道那些人會得救。 (God's foreknowledge) 他們的說法﹐清楚指出神作主動﹐但是回應的部份﹐他們認為 人可以“RESIST”﹐相對于加爾文的 irresistible grace。 1. That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ his Son, before the foundations of the world were laid, determined to save, out of the human race which had fallen into sin, in Christ, for Christ's sake and through Christ, those who through the grace of the Holy Spirit shall believe on the same his Son and shall through the same grace persevere in this same faith and obedience of faith even to the end; and on the other hand to leave under sin and wrath the contumacious and unbelieving and to condemn them as aliens from Christ, according to the word of the Gospel in John 3:36, and other passages of Scripture. 2.That, accordingly, Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world, died for all men and for every man, so that he has obtained for all, by his death on the cross, reconciliation and remission of sins; yet so that no one is partaker of this remission except the believers [John 3:16; 1 John 2:2]. 3. That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the working of his own free-will, inasmuch as in his state of apostasy and sin he can for himself and by himself think nothing that is good--nothing, that is, truly good, such as saving faith is, above all else. But that it is necessary that by God, in Christ and through his Holy Spirit he be born again and renewed in understanding, affections and will and in all his faculties, that he may be able to understand, think, will, and perform what is truly good, according to the Word of God [John 15:5]. 4. That this grace of God is the beginning, the progress and the end of all good; so that even the regenerate man can neither think, will nor effect any good, nor withstand any temptation to evil, without grace precedent (or prevenient), awakening, following and co-operating. So that all good deeds and all movements towards good that can be conceived in through must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ. But with respect to the mode of operation, grace is not irresistible; for it is written of many that they resisted the Holy Spirit [Acts 7 and elsewhere passim]. 5.That those who are grafted into Christ by a true faith, and have thereby been made partakers of his life-giving Spirit, are abundantly endowed with power to strive against Satan, sin, the world and their own flesh, and to win the victory; always, be it understood, with the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit, with Jesus Christ assisting them in all temptations, through his Spirit; stretching out his hand to them and (providing only that they are themselves prepared for the fight, that they entreat his aid and do not fail to help themselves) propping and upbuilding them so that by no guile or violence of Satan can they be led astray or plucked from Christ's hands [John 10:28]. But for the question whether they are not able through sloth or negligence to forsake the beginning of their life in Christ, to embrace again this present world, to depart from the holy doctrine once delivered to them, to lose their good conscience and to neglect grace--this must be the subject of more exact inquiry in the Holy Scriptures, before we can teach it with full confidence of our mind. 亞米紐主義和加爾文主義﹐在原初的理念﹐其分歧比大家所想象的小﹐ 他們都同意人有罪性﹐同意是神作出主動﹐同意人必須常常在神的裡面才可以 最終得救(如何保守、人會否使自己不得救不相同)。 更多的研究顯示﹐他們的關係有時候像一個弔詭裡面的兩邊﹕所有伏在神審判下的人是要滅亡的。(加) 沒有一個伏在神審判下的人是配得救的。(亞) 神不會因為任何一個人滅亡而感到高興﹐神不願意人滅亡(加) 神會為所有能夠得救的人而高興﹐神願意人得救(亞) 沒有人會主動尋求神﹐除非是神吸引感動他來(加) 所有父賜了給耶穌基督的人﹐他們和尋求神(亞) 人自己的行為(WORKS)無用、無功效﹐反而成為他們被定罪因(加) 耶穌基督祂的工作(WORKS)是完全而永久有效﹐成為人得救的因(亞) 救恩在客觀上﹐是二千年前﹐基督耶穌為我們成就的(加) 救恩在個人主觀層面上﹐人去接受福音(亞) 那些最後滅亡的人是自己有意識的去拒絕神的慈愛(加) 那些最終得救的﹐是自己有意識的去接受神的愛﹐並且他省察(亞) 加爾文主義反對因為預定論而不傳福音(反正人都信﹐傳不傳都一樣) 亞米紐主義反對因為自由意志而斷定傳福音是對人有害(萬一那人不信﹐不是傳福音害人﹖) 當大家細心看﹐根本發現有很多我們所謂的分歧是出於不了解和成見。 <紅豆冰> 無意見 yellowcat 指出了其中的一些關鍵......紅豆冰 ckachow 對預定論有很深的認識,實在佩服,但卻似乎對亞米念派和衛斯理傳統所知不深和可能有所偏差, yellowcat 正好指出了其中的一些關鍵之處,當然這並不表示亞米念派的神學思想是正確無誤,但我們亦應看到加爾文正統派在這方面的「盲點」。 加爾文正統派只是加爾文主義的一個分支,將加爾文主義等同加爾文這個做法已是有所偏差,何況是貼上了正統派這個單一標籤,要正確地認識預定論必須從從整個加爾文的神學思想入手,這樣才能清楚和正確地知道預定論的意義和定位;同樣地要真正清楚地明白亞米念的神學思想,亦不應單單著眼於「自由意志」這點上,「自由意志」只是亞米念因應正統派將預定論公式化而作出的回應,並不是亞米念神學思想的全部,說到底亞米念也是改革宗的神學家,其神學思想也是源於加爾文和慈運理。 無意見 亞米念主義矛盾多多......ckachow 亞米念主義矛盾多多,一方面說每個人都能用自由意志去選擇信神,一方面又說若果沒有神幫助和感動,人是不可能信主。一方面說神實在是揀選人,另一方面又說人一定要用自己的意志信神,否則神無論如何都不會救。神就是做了百分之九十九都沒有用,一定要人的意志選擇神,救恩才能完成!人的意志竟然成了人得救最關鍵的因素。神始終都沒有主權救人,主權是在人的手!神揀選人得救變作人揀選神得救,這不是錯謬的歪理是甚麼?你們為何不肯讓神有主權救人?為何不讓神獨得所有的榮耀?保羅都不是靠自由意志信主啦,是神用祂的主權改變他敗壞的意志及觀念,賜他得救的信心,他才能信主。這事真是最清楚不過。你不相信我都相信保羅的見證啦。